.. another "monk awareness" thread.

[Carinae]

Originally Posted by Makkert

I remember using Unyielding once. Most fun I ever had with my monk.

war: wtf? Unyielding? Don't you know how this game works?
me: I do. that's why you are placed under unyielding

Try using Vengeance and watch the bitching that ensues!

Not to hijack the topic, but Necro batteries have the same problem. Back before the AoE nerf, doing Sorrow's runs, I'd have to battery 2 monks and 3 eles. Let me tell ya, Necro batteries aren't meant to recharge Eles. Especially 3 echo+glyph meteor shower eles, who have seen Deep Impact too often.

OT - To my monk friends: Gal, Aura, Hea Laa THANKS!! We love ya!

[glountz]

/Unsigned

Again in this monk thread, monk players lack to show what is their most desired quality: Humility.

[Sister Spice]

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Warriors are mostly pathetic excuses for players... oh look, AMITY in pvp, OWNED. PvE, you are just giant meatbags, nothing more. Do your job and STFU about it. You are there to get the shit beaten out of you, that's all. You don't even need to talk when we get right down to it. And BTW, I have a warrior, and he is a QUIET good boy who does as he is told, and has patience. So, you can take that comment on ENERGY MANAGEMENT and shove it where the sun doesn't shine, because you don't want to see my ways of energy management... it's called, SCREW YOU WAMMO JACKASS, no healing for you.

See I'm a monk, but if I met a monk with an attitude like that I hope the nearest Warrior leads you straight to the nearest aggro.

Yes there are some crap Warriors, but there are also some really good ones too.

How would you like to be told 'do your job and STFU' as a monk?

As it happens - I prefer my guild warriors to lead our groups - they're in front, they're watching the environment (instead of watching the healing bars like I am) and they're the ones who can identify the route and appropriate targets more efficiently. I know warriors who can tank defensively, who can run strategically, plus a particular build that is incredibly resilient but does huge amounts of damage (for a warrior) - I wouldn't be so arrogant as to dismiss them in the way you just did.

Sister Spice

[Avarre]

Originally Posted by glountz

/Unsigned

Again in this monk thread, monk players lack to show what is their most desired quality: Humility.

Seconded unto infinity.

Monks are loved by everyone with a clue, and griefed by idiots. Yet you still cry that you don't have the love of fools. Do you really care about what people that aggro the whole map thing about?

Anyone that is truly worth grouping with will know your worth. At least you get invited into enough groups to find those people.

[Sai of Winter]

Solutions for the Monks out there who cannot handle pick-up groups that might end up being a bad group:

1)Use henchmen/women because they don't say anything. I know their AI isn't great, but still a quiet bunch. They won't insult you.

2)Play with friends and your guild members (if you're in one). Most of them are well-knowledge about the game and will help you with your build patiently. Also, everyone will listen to each other and talk about strategy before hand. Plus, everyone will have fun with one another.

Of course, I've never had a problem healing people and I did my best and never received any grief from the other players. Also, there are some good pick-up groups out there...had a bunch of them in the past and they were great. Everyone knew what to do and most of them were new players and they did their job well.

[Lord Sojar]

Originally Posted by Sister Spice

See I'm a monk, but if I met a monk with an attitude like that I hope the nearest Warrior leads you straight to the nearest aggro.

Yes there are some crap Warriors, but there are also some really good ones too.

How would you like to be told 'do your job and STFU' as a monk?

As it happens - I prefer my guild warriors to lead our groups - they're in front, they're watching the environment (instead of watching the healing bars like I am) and they're the ones who can identify the route and appropriate targets more efficiently. I know warriors who can tank defensively, who can run strategically, plus a particular build that is incredibly resilient but does huge amounts of damage (for a warrior) - I wouldn't be so arrogant as to dismiss them in the way you just did.

Sister Spice

AGreed, there are some good tanks, not saying there are not. But my point is in reference to the "i aggro everything i see because I am a TANK" types. They just bug me. I do my job, so I will never need to be told that. There are many good warriors, but the issue on GWs is that there are more bad then good. My attitude ingame is extremely good, ask anyone who knows me. It isn't very fair to assume things running off this thread alone now is it? So my point remains, many many tanks are complete fools, and why should it be the job of monks to clean up their mess? They should learn to play the game with some wisdom and patience...

[Zehnchu]

I wasn’t aware that people who play monks have to bring anything special to the game, other then the desire to complete the missions and work as a team.

Humility would apply to everyone or no one at all.

It’s not about “love thy monk” it’s about
I am aware you are dead
I am aware you are low on health
So why spam it for the next 20 minutes
My energy it not infinity it’s 0 of 60
So why do you run off knowing that
Why should I heal a pet that’s not mine, I didn’t bring it
Why should I heal minions I didn’t raise them.
Fools = Unyielding Aura
I am part of the team and my job is keeping people alive the best I can, there for I have a say in things.

[General Wise Guy]

Originally Posted by Kaguya

Too bad the people that should be reading this aren't reading the forums

Got an idea from this tho, I'll start spamming 'attack that monster' when someone spams 'heal me'

lol...
i did this last night, it made warr mad..
i was like then stop doing that shit to me, i also know what im doing."

[Shantel Span]

My computer is FRIED at the moment, so this did not please me in the least when a friend let me log onto my account for a quick mission. It went something along the lines of:

Nec: You monk suck
Scarlet Span: My energy is 0 of 47.
Monk2: My energy is 2 of 40.
[...]
Monk2: Don't bother rezzing him
Scarlet Span: I'm casting Rebirth on Nec!
[...]
Nec: Alright, let's go, there's a boss ahead
[rest of team runs up ahead]
Scarlet Span: My energy is 8 of 47.
Monk2: My energy is 12 of 40.
Nec: Don't aggro that group to the side
[I cast Healing Hands/Orison on about three people in three seconds, barely looking away from the Party window]
Scarlet Span, to self: ARG! They went ahead without me...
[trails on barely at end of aggro circle of the nearest Ele]
[Accidentally aggros the group to the side...an easily killed small group of hydra]
Scarlet Span: Guys, side group got aggrod...stop and help?
Nec: I'm attacking Boss!
-all dead-
Nec: You monks ------g suck


One big /sigh...

[Martin Firestorm]

Bottom line--its hard to monk (referring to a healer here), and hard to get the proper respect from party members if you do monk. When you monk well most of your comrades don't even realize it. They realize they're not dead but seem to take personal credit for it and fail to notice their health bars bouncing back up through no effort of their own. What I really cannot stand is the abuse heaped on monks when players die--sorry, that is part of GW and it would be a pitifully unbalanced and boring game if you never died, even with monks in your party. Your death does not mean the monk blew it, and nearly always actaully means that you failed to quit attacking long enough to take evasive action as your health bar is draining. Work with your monk to stay alive.

And monks, quit griping so much when enemies do break through the fron lines and attack you. As you well know, the charge to the back of the group and targeting of monks is part of GW's PVE and PVP, and the rest of the group can't always prevent it completely. Run away or at least re-position yourself if you're under attack, and sometimes running toward the front is your best strategy at that point. Work with your group to get the kills.

[Van Falcon]

I think those that are saying that a monk is just part of the team don't really understand the crap monk gets when something goes wrong. Case in point, THK last night:

We had a dumb ass necro who first talks to the king and then proceeds to get himself and the king tangled up in the nest of the aggro for nearly all the fights going forward. He had no self healing or defensive skills so he was sucking nearly as much of our healing as the rest of the group put together.

Anyway, somehow we progressed to the wall just before where the King normally opens the door. In his last act of stupidity the necro aggros both the boss group, and another group onto us simultaneously. He dies straight away (yay!). Problem though... even though the rest of our group is reasonably skilled and we are handling both groups ok, suddenly I notice King Ironhammers health bar taking a dive!

Now for context, remember that monks typically spend 90% of their time looking at just the parties health bars and maybe only 10% looking at the actual view. Therefore it was only at this point I realised that Ironhammer had actually got separated from the rest of the party and was fighting one group of aggro on his own! Unfortunately, between this group and us monks was the 2nd group of aggro where our 3 warriors were fairly mindlessly bashing away. Both of us desperately tried to make our way through the aggro to get within range of the king but didn't make it (bit of lag didn't help).

So who's fault was it? The necro for aggroing 2 groups at once, talking to the king when he shouldn't have, and just generally being a moron? Perhaps it was the 3 warriors, who should have had a bit more spacial awareness. Once they realised the King had gotten away, 1-2 of them could have moved over to assist. Nooooo... of course not... It was the #$(%$en monks fault!! HEAL KING!!! HEAL KING!!!!!FJDslf8iwe39

Anyway, I can see why monks get a bit peeved sometimes. So some quick tips for players on THK mission:

- Let your monks talk to the King, they are more than happy to hang round the back of the party keeping him out of harms way.
- Don't aggro 2 mobs at once, unless you are trying to complete THK in record time! Admittedly fun in itself..
- Have a bit of spacial awareness for #($)s sake, and take a bit of overall responsibility for the team. If you see the King is in trouble, think about what you can do to help out.

Hey to all the hard working monks out there .

[glountz]

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Humility would apply to everyone or no one at all.

Go play a mesmer. You learn it, as nobody thanks you for saving their butt by shutting down ennemy casters/bosses. It is really griefing when you see people congratulating the Ele for "nuking" the boss/ennemy waster whereas he was killing himself by casting through Backfire or the Ranger for "interrupting" whereas it was my interrupts and the R was a useless trapper.

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

It’s not about “love thy monk” it’s about
I am aware you are dead

Sorry, only noobs can grief you about that. In PVE. In PVP, if you don't rez quickly a dead character, then you'd better have a really good reason.

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

I am aware you are low on health
So why spam it for the next 20 minutes

Again, only abusive players will "spam it". You seem as the OP to insinuate EVERY player do this. Why do you bother with them when it happens anyway?
However, when I see monk healing a 75%+ health character whereas the tank is below 20%, I wonder.
The OP and you seem to believe that being a monk ensure you to be a good player. The problem is that many monks suck. A lot. Because beeing a monk do not mean you're a good player. The player behind the screen matters more than the character he is playing. The monk had something special, though. When he sucks, it is blantantly apparent. When he's good, it is also blatantly apparent. As someone said, playing a monk requires a lot of maturity and experience. That is not the case for every monk I encountered.

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

My energy it not infinity it’s 0 of 60
So why do you run off knowing that

Again, not EVERY player do that, only abusive ones. And when a monk is showing this 1 minute after the beginning of the battle, again, I wonder about his energy management skill.

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Why should I heal a pet that’s not mine, I didn’t bring it
Why should I heal minions I didn’t raise them.

Yes, every ranger you meet ask you that and every necro wants you to heal their minions. Sorry, I don't believe that.

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Fools = Unyielding Aura

Unyielding Aura = Immediate Leaving.
If you ask others players to tolerate your mistakes (and monks always make some it's normal nobody is perfect), then tolerate other's players mistakes. That's on such points you need to learn humility. Bringing Unyielding Aura to force and submit another player to play as you want is pride. Don't wonder after why there is so much abuse from players by such an attitude. You completely deserve it by doing such things and asking other monks to do the same.

Hopefully, there are some monks who know that there will always be fools to blame them, and rely more on good players they can encounter, leaving the bad ones alone to themselves, instead of trying to punish the noobs by stupid and selfish behaviors.

My advices to the monk community is to leave your pride aside when you are abused. A good player will always eventually recognize your skill, provided you are skilled.

[crazy diamond]

Originally Posted by glountz

not everybody does this, not everybody does that ad nauseum.

I guess I missed the part where said that everybody does.

We're not retarded, we obviously don't think everyone does it. I don't think that needs saying. But evidently enough people do this shit. Certainly enough to warrant an awareness thread.

You aren't saying anything interesting or new. You are simply rehashing something nobody says, because nobody thinks it needs saying, simply because its common sense.

[glountz]

If it's common sense, cease these monk threads.
You can't fight noobism.
As long as there will be non-monk new players you will have to face such attitudes toward monks. And other professions to face noob or bossing monks.
This kind of thread to my mind only feed monk hate from non-monk players. Do not expect gentle and kind behavior when most monks in PVE suck, and skilled ones are bossing, prideful and abusive (like the ones bringing U aura).
A very few percentage of monks are clean in terms of behavior, skill, and builds nowadays.
Noobs and scums are everywhere, among monks (the worst being the 55hp gear changing ones) as among whammos.

[quickmonty]

One problem is .... any profession .... people who think they are great and know everything. Help the new people. Listen to those you know to be wise. Do you part for the team, and when you come across those buttheads that are so plentiful just chalk it up as a loss and move on.

I have four character thru the game (PvE) the first being a monk. I have two new characters (one of each profession now) that still have a lot to learn.

[Zehnchu]

Originally Posted by glountz

Go play a mesmer. You learn it, as nobody thanks you for saving their butt by shutting down ennemy casters/bosses. It is really griefing when you see people congratulating the Ele for "nuking" the boss/ennemy waster whereas he was killing himself by casting through Backfire or the Ranger for "interrupting" whereas it was my interrupts and the R was a useless trapper.

Never assume what you don’t know.

Originally Posted by glountz

Sorry, only noobs can grief you about that. In PVE. In PVP, if you don't rez quickly a dead character, then you'd better have a really good reason.

Elitists attitude I see.

Originally Posted by glountz

Again, only abusive players will "spam it". You seem as the OP to insinuate EVERY player do this. Why do you bother with them when it happens anyway?
However, when I see monk healing a 75%+ health character whereas the tank is below 20%, I wonder.
The OP and you seem to believe that being a monk ensure you to be a good player. The problem is that many monks suck. A lot. Because beeing a monk do not mean you're a good player. The player behind the screen matters more than the character he is playing. The monk had something special, though. When he sucks, it is blantantly apparent. When he's good, it is also blatantly apparent. As someone said, playing a monk requires a lot of maturity and experience. That is not the case for every monk I encountered.

Just about as much as you say there are many monks that suck, see the connection. And your first assumption is everyone who posted on this thread who is a monk sucks and needs to learn something. But you never have been in a group with any of us, what we say and how we play are two very different things. The only thing anyone needs to bring to a game especially those who play monk is just do the best they can. Again maturity and experience applies to everyone or no one.

Originally Posted by glountz

And when a monk is showing this 1 minute after the beginning of the battle, again, I wonder about his energy management skill.

I’m going to quote you “Sorry, I don't believe that.”

Originally Posted by glountz

Yes, every ranger you meet ask you that and every necro wants you to heal their minions. Sorry, I don't believe that.

Did I say every mm and ranger who brings a pet, no.

Originally Posted by glountz

Unyielding Aura = Immediate Leaving.
If you ask others players to tolerate your mistakes (and monks always make some it's normal nobody is perfect), then tolerate other's players mistakes. That's on such points you need to learn humility. Bringing Unyielding Aura to force and submit another player to play as you want is pride. Don't wonder after why there is so much abuse from players by such an attitude. You completely deserve it by doing such things and asking other monks to do the same.

Hopefully, there are some monks who know that there will always be fools to blame them, and rely more on good players they can encounter, leaving the bad ones alone to themselves, instead of trying to punish the noobs by stupid and selfish behaviors.

Again there’s a difference in mistakes and some one who doesn’t want to listen I don’t see why the whole team punished because of that. Unyielding Aura has a very good usefulness also.

Originally Posted by glountz

My advices to the monk community is to leave your pride aside when you are abused. A good player will always eventually recognize your skill, provided you are skilled.

You tell us we suck, how to play, what we must learn and then you give us advice.Not that I have anything to prove to you, but since I can keep the whole team alive with 10 energy not touching the other 57, wow I must really suck.

[Linsys]

The reason why people don't understand monks is because they don't have one plane and simple..

I have a Warrior and Monk and I think I'm a dam good warrior because I don't FORCE the monks to run through agro to heal me..


Its like this

E = Enemy
W = Warriors
M = Monks


E
W

E E (perfect Agro)
W W

ELE ELE (SS NEC)

M

Which warriors do u think I'm gonna heal? and which warrior do u think I'm gonna let die? You decide..

Monks have a limited range and SHOULD not be expected to run through agro to heal anyone..

My favorite is when some warrior is off with his solo build trying to kill LvL 28 enemys and is like heal me heal me... lol... but after I told him to stick with the group and he proceds to tell me that he doesn't need me to heal him he is a W/Mo didn't I see that... (like I'm blind)... I just let them die... and don't even bother to rez them..


It isn't always the Warriors, most PUG monks just suck... period.. and I'm not afraid to tell them they suck... when I see them using Prot/Heal/Smite I laught right at them... and tell them they suck.. Most monks don't know how to monk and I think people get tired of it... playing monk is something which takes time to learn how to do properly.. as well you need to know what almost every enemy does... for most classes this isn't important.. since a warrior just hacks through stuff and blocks the way I need to know who and what is gonna strip enchantments, degen, bleeding, blind etc... do I need to bring a remove conidion in this area? Do I need a hex remover? Do I need both? If so what healing skills do I need to get rid of? Is the necro running wells or Minions? Do I need to? etc.. etc.. etc..

there is soo much to consider, in some areas Ward is better then healing hands, in other areas Boon heal is best with no enchantment healing spells... I have to know soo much about the game and each character we fight to be effective..

I have to watch the team, is the Necro trying to be the tank? Is the other monk trying to tank? Is the ele running AoE? Oh shit now I'm being attacked.. do I self heal stand here and heal the team? or run and then come back and heal? soo many questions so much to consider and pay attention to..


Most monks suck... I rahter bring henchies (this spoken from an Expert Monk).

[RWGreen]

I get great enjoyment out of trying to keep large numbers of idiots alive. I've done pretty much everything else in the game, so I'll just go find random PuGs in missions and see if I can get the whole crew through the mission without anyone dying. My proudest moment was getting a whole crew through the Dragon's Lair without a single death, and with me as the sole healer. Let's hear it for hotkeys!

Sometimes I get into these annoying well-organized groups though. What kind of a challenge is that? Pisses me right off.

[glountz]

Zehnchu, I don't want to start a flame war.

Ask yourself some questions: Is there Any Warrior's awareness Thread? Is this forum full of Mesmer's awareness thread?

Since the AI patches, it has become damn hard to keep an aggro bubble on the warrior, for example. Especially when "nuking" eles... "Nuke". It is always the warrior which is responsible for aggroing everything, but did you try to pull by yourself? It has becme severely hard. When you use a longbow to strike the nearest ennemy, the whole bunch of monsters generally come, so you have to retreat a long way back before there are only 2-3 mobs following you. If any of the party members stay here while the warrior is retreating, the pulling is finished and the disaster come. And the warrior is blamed for it, of course. Do they whine? No.

I have enough griefs against bossing monks, silly build monks, gear switching monks, lying monks, unskilled monks, abusive monks and the list could continue. Some monk players here admitted they played with crappy monks, they exist and are not a minority. The whole point is that monks are a core member of a team. They are loved and needed for their job. And they know it. And they abuse of it.
I didn't tell in any of my posts how to do your job. I didn't accuse you to be among the crappy monks. You made a personnal insult of what I was saying about average skill of monks in PUGs, which is the same as the average skill of any player in PUGs (that is to say somewhat low-I personally now use guildies/friend to pass through difficult missions on my PVE characters and bots when I don't need human players), I don't see why playing a monk character would make you a good player.
I was just saying to stay quiet against abuse you could encounter (I personnally rarely found, even in PUGs, abuse against monks). And to let your pride/bossing behavior at home. It will only generate more and more monk hate and abuse. When I encounter such monks, I generally restart with Alesia/Lina. They are crappy, but at least they don't talk.
To your information, I play a monk for GvG when there is no other one available (but I have no PVE primary monk character), so I understand the meaning of pressure. And in PvP it's something else for a monk than in PVE, granted.
Seeing such thread and such posts like the one from Rahja the thief, I believe Monk abuse/hate has still some future.

[sun is in us]

Originally Posted by glountz

To your information, I play a monk for GvG when there is no other one available (but I have no PVE primary monk character), so I understand the meaning of pressure. And in PvP it's something else for a monk than in PVE, granted.

Play a PVE monk all the way through. I am not discounting your opinion at all, it is just one of those (rarer) situations where you actually have to BE the thing before you will really understand.

Again, I started out venting in this thread but I see the point of giving into my Zen as a PVE monk thanks to some of the more experienced Monks here who have posted. As I have played Healers of one type or another in almost all the RPGs I have played, and had just played one for a year in COH, my first CHAR in GW was as far away from that as I could get...for a needed break.

But then I picked up Monking/Healing again and found that the frustration was not so much from other players complaining, but from my perspective (as another style of char) of wanting to Direct the Battle; still. Since I know all the mechanics, it is frustrating to be put in the position of watching Chars do things that basically put the whole party at risk and then blame your char.

I kept hearing myself repeating Willy Wonka (the original) over and over again in my head... with that same banal style: "No please dont do that. It will hurt you. Please don't touch that.
Stop, don't, come back . . ."
....and then just watching Mike TeeVee go do it anyway...and then the parents blame you. "He's perfectly unharmed Ms. Teevee....just a little dead-er. Meet us in the ReBirthing room please..."

So now I think of myself as just a MASH unit (unless I am with a good group that wants input/listens etc). and just figure the Generals in Charge will create the casualties...and may lose us the battle....but my job is just to patch 'em up best I can. If they want to blame the doctors behind the lines.../shrug; I know I did a good job. So I leave war to the politicians again as a Monk.

And I have played a monk in both PVP (started out there, in all forms) and PVE.....I think in General PVE is where you hear the most complaining........if people are yelling at the Monk in PVP.....those people I don't know how to help.